It is quite well known that the current Vadakalai temples (divyadesams and other ancient temples ) have been converted in the last two centuries. The history of conversions that took place in Kanchi Varadarja temple can be deciphered from the court records (which I will summarize in another post). I am trying to gather information on other prominent Vadakalai temples.
The divyadesams that bear Vadakalai thiruman (exclusively) are:
Thirukkudanthai, Ahobilam, Thiruevvul, Thiruvinnagar, Therazhundur, Thiruvahindrapuram, Thiruvelliangudi, Thirupullabhoothangudi, Thirukandiyur, Thiruadhanur.
I couldn't find any information on Thirukkudanthai which I love greatly as the prabandams for this temple is unrivaled except for Arangam Vengadam and Solai and to some extent Kannapuram and Naraiyur.
Ahobilam and Thiruevvul (Thiruvallur) could have been converted without much opposition because it was under direct control of Ahobila Mutt which itself was believed to be converted sometime in the 18th century. Thanjai Mamuni Koil was demolished by descendants of RajaRaja Chola. It became the present three temples recently so that can explain the change of sign.
Thoopul is like Kanchi temple where Srisailesa dayapatram is recited but most thirumans in the temple are Vadakalai. Note there exist multiple mutilated Thenkalai thirumans in both these temples.
It is plausible that smaller and poorer temples could have been easier targets and successfully converted. But Kudanthai is such a historic temple. How could have it been easily converted?
hey why do you want to create a bad blood between tenkalai and vadakali? no one can prove or disprove some of the statements here.
ReplyDeleteBtw, include tirupati too...
Thiruvengadam(tirupati) is an outright Thenkalai temple.
DeleteSir
Deleteconversions are nothing wrong. Vadakalai and Tenkalai equally keep up the sri vaishnava tradition. Be proud of it. The differences were not used as a means of different identity until last 2 centuries where money,power dominated. So. Please spread the true essence of Sri-Vaishnavism is present in both the vadakalai and tenkalai sampradaya
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DeleteThere was only one sri vaishnava symbol and that was the current vadakali thiruman. Ramanuja converted them to thenkalai. For example, he converts srirangam to pancharatra. He gave control to Koorathazhwan and Mudaliyandan who converted it to thankalai. I am sure withe the passage of time, many temples will be back to the original thiruman including srirangam and tirupati.
Deletebaseless and idiotic prattle
DeleteVadakalai only converted many ancient thenkalai historic temples to vadakalai with the power, money and cunningness. Right now they have upper hand in terms of money , but that will never be possible to voluntarily change which was there for several years... Life is 60 or 80 till that they can do these, then what can be done ??? Let's God see...
DeleteThe stories they peddle, pretty soon, they will side themselves with Kirmikanta chola and against Ramanujachrayas.
DeleteFrauds, there is no difference between Muslims christians and vadakalai because, vadakalai have defaced and destroyed temples and symbolism for the greed and positional disposition of few cunning personnel's with ulterior motive, and they have changed tirumankaapu of Ramanujacharya in certain DD with the indulgence of money.
What about Thiruadhanur?
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info. I have updated it.
DeleteFor your kind information, Tirupathi is an outright Vadagalai Temple.It is very much evident from the Thirunamam of the processional deity (utsavar) of Tirumala Tirupathi that the temple belongs to Vadagalai. Moreover this vadagalai thenkalai debate is applied only to divya desams of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh. What about Kerala Divya desams and other Vada Nattu divya desams which follows neither of these Sampradhayas?? Thiruvanthapuram is taken over by Kerala Iyers and similarly other temples follow other sampradhayas pertaining to their respective regions. So let us NOT pettily analyse the differences prevalant in the sampradayams among the divya desams (especially in Tamil Nadu temples) as it is totally unhealthy, useless, unnecessary and does not promote unity. Please let us only realise and understand the ultimate spiritual value and reality of Vaishnavism. This is my strong message here. Bow to Lord Sriman Narayana and peace to all.
ReplyDeleteWell said!
DeleteBewarsi Moodevi
DeleteTirumala is Thenkalai only
Moodikko with ur Toilet paper history.
And it's under the custody of Pedda Jeeyar and chinna jeeyar.
The change is utsavar tiruman is deliberate. Ask ur Ahobilam and Parkala matham crooked-twisted morons who changed the history to take control of the temple.
For your kind information, Tirupathi is an outright Vadagalai Temple.It is very much evident from the Thirunamam of the processional deity (utsavar) of Tirumala Tirupathi that the temple belongs to Vadagalai. Moreover this vadagalai thenkalai debate is applied only to divya desams of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh. What about Kerala Divya desams and other Vada Nattu divya desams which follows neither of these Sampradhayas?? Thiruvanthapuram is taken over by Kerala Iyers and similarly other temples follow other sampradhayas pertaining to their respective regions. So let us NOT pettily analyse the differences prevalant in the sampradayams among the divya desams (especially in Tamil Nadu temples) as it is totally unhealthy, useless, unnecessary and does not promote unity. Please let us only realise and understand the ultimate spiritual value and reality of Vaishnavism. This is my strong message here. Bow to Lord Sriman Narayana and peace to all.
ReplyDeletedon't blabber, does vadagalai srichurnam black in colour, it is just a Kasthuri type of thilak and not vadakalai and we see vadagalai miscreants changing the thiruman inside temple, but if you see the divine bell and Varadhar sannithi it has Thengalai thiruman and even Ramanujar has thenkalai thiruman,
Deletefurther the thanyan recited is "SriSailesa Dayapathram" which is enough to prove it to be a Thenkalai temple.
in dwajasthambam there is vadakalai thiruman for time immemorial. (may even before sri ramanuja giving sanku chakram to lord)
DeleteBtw why one thiruman alone is thenkalai and rest all 11 are like vadakalai when wearing thiruman kappu?
at base of dwajasthambam it is thenkalai thriuman only,and also the main ghanta has thenkalai thiruman and before varadharaja sannathi has thenkalai.
Deletefyi.. jeers who has full spiritual authority is Thenkalai.
Srinivasa utsavars tiruman was changed due some repairs in the utsava murty.
DeleteThey cunnily and comfortably changed the tiruman to suit their explanation.
Yes... I wish your comments sir
DeleteI am a shivite. I had darsan of almost 70 Divya Desam temples. I don't find any difference until I hear from you guys. So leave it to God. Just bow to HIM
ReplyDeleteEven during Ramanujacharya's time there was a slight scholarly tussle between scholars on the opinion of position of lakshmi, where kaivalyam is located and other few, which are now itemed as 18 sectarian difference. This scholarly debate was only done by Ubhaya Vedanta experts and especially their specialized expertise in Tamil Divya Prabhandam.
ReplyDeleteIts foolish to say(which is now common amongst everybody) that Vadakalai and Thenkalai is geographic oriented due to the vernacular emphasis on Sanskrit in Kanchi and Tamil in Urayur and south. All crap reasons.
All the temples bore Tenkalai namam only. Vadakalai is of a recent origin that can be plotted to the rise of Tatacharya family with the influential position obtained by Vijayanagar King patronage. Due to this influential hereditary position, they took all the might first change Kanchi Varadaraja Perumal koil worship, and positioned strongly on converting VilaKoil perumal-DeepaPrakashar temple. These vadakalai very svagely converted the Deepaprashar koil Ther(temple chariot) parking place as Vedanta Desikar place of birth and soon parked themselves there.
In Varadaraja perumal koil, they still havent got the guts to change the ancient tirumankaapu in front of Perundevi tayar sannidi.
Coming to Mysore, due to Wodeyar royal family having Parakala mutt jeeyar as their raja guru, some attempt was also made to influence the tirumankaapu of Ramanujacharya and alwars(Namalwar and Kaliyan utsavars, situated outside tayar sannidi is bearing vadakalai namam), but they couldnt do anything more, due to strong old and ancient Thenkalaiyars. Why go that far, Ahobilam mutt originates from Melkote, the first 5 jeeyars kept thenkalai thirumankaapu only. Even their brindavanam situated at melkote had Tenkalai thirumankaapu, until overnight they scrubbed it clean to make it look like present vadakalai. You take 50yrs old pic of any jeeyars of Ahobilam and Parkalamutt, the srichurnam will be Red, only recently they have shamelessly changed everything to yellow. They are not even respecting old photographs, they are photoshopping Yellow to assert we are different.\
This fanatism was furthered by a cookedup stories of MuniTrayal sampradayam from Kumbakonam-Tanjavur belt.
Their sole goal and agenda is to change thirumankaapu of main temples and twist the tongue by placing cooked up stories like
ReplyDelete1. Srirangam,Tirumala and other DD originally had Vadakalai namam only, Ramanujar came and changed.
Its our duty to change it back.(Idiotic)
2. Ramanujacharya converted few non-bramins into bramins, so Thenkalaiyars are polluted(Ramanujacharya 1000 yrs ago poetically convinced the local population into following varana ashrama dharma, the only additional thing swami did was that each and everyone of the srivaishnavites could render service to the lord) idu ivangalukku porukalai. Bramins aana top da, bramins daa da toppu attitude.
3. Postioned Swami Vedanta Desikar as the champion of Vadakalais, when that swami himself was a thenkalaiyar throughout. To have a sound story of how the championship of Desikan was repetedly trounced by thenacharyas, they cookedup another round of cookedup story of SriRangam acharyas shaming swami, repetedly put swami for test etc etc etc. Any one reading it will definetly have a strong emotional sorry connection towards swami Desikan. Sri PB Annangarachariar Swami of kanchipuram belong to the family that has the direct acharya-desciple relationship from Vedanta Desikan and his son Kumara Varadacharya. Till PBA swami was alive, vadakalai used to be afraid of them like virus, because PBA swami used to deep fry them for the nonsense they were creating(Vadakalai vs Thekalai), the hate towards PBA swami was so much that they burst crackers when the news broke out that PBA swami reached paramapadam.
4. Changed Ramanujacharya sannidi thirumankaapu to the present one, by paying money to the archakar for his daugters marriage expense(shamelessly).
5. Emphasising the story that Vadakalai are true bramins, and we have to preserve it, and likewise statements to change archakars tiruman first, and after few generations, sannidhi tiruman later.(Masters of cunning Futures and Options)
6. Destroy and deface original moolavars. Look at Varadan, the original tiruman was defaced to put the U shape one. Thiruvallur VeeraRaghava perumal also same case. Moolavar thiruman also changed.
7. Another completely idiotic story, Ramanujacharya in Tirumala is actaully Swami Vedanta Desikan, because only swami Desikan is in yoga mudra, Ramanujachrya can only be found in anjali mudra. They dont even have the common sense of going through history of Tirumala that Ramanujacharya vigraham was originally and only for Swami AnanthAlwan in Yoga mudrai, so that Ananthalwan doesnt feel seprated from Ramanujacharya. Later when Srinivasa temple compound was constucted, the vigraham was later situated within the temple precincts. These people first comfortably changed the tiruman of Vaikanasa priests, and now they are creating tension of chaging the tirumankaapu of Srinivasa perumal. They went to the extent of changing the utsavars thirumankaapu with deciet.
The same thing is happening in SriRangam. silently using money money power and monetary assistance, they have chagned few archkars thirumankaapu sighting purity of bramins, days wont be that far then Ranganathan worship will be hindered.
Perhaps these fools will be successful, but their success is all empty, full of pride and hate.
And kindly refer Srivaishnava sampradayam as ThenAchrya sampradayam, Thenachraya being Nammalvar. Nothing thenkalai, only ThenAchraya sampradayam.
and openly reject the NoN-Sense kalai called Vadakalai.
Their next target is SriRangam, Madurai and surrounding which ever is ancient. Mutts of so called Vadakalai have an agenda and they have sccuessfully
Good analysis here:
ReplyDeletehttps://x.com/Raghunandan_00/status/1997348048855609413/photo/2
My hypothesis is Tanjavore Nayaks/Marathas forecefully handed over control of temples around Kumbakonam to Vadakalai. That can explain the cluster of temples under Vadakalai control. Thiruvallur and Ahobilam have been explained in the post.
ReplyDeleteThere is clear proof that till 1565 (the end of Vijayanagara empire) there was only Thenkalai. Every Vishnu temple there has hundreds of thenkalai thiruman inscriptions. An example from Krishna temple built by Krishnadevaraya:
Search Granary of Krishna Temple Hampi in Google maps